Julian Saunders: Self-Discovery in Creating Debut Album “Two Geese”

Julian Saunders and I met for the first time a few months back when he opened for Sarah Krohn, Runner & Bobby, and Hollyy at Park West. His set was filled with acoustic warmth and folky tunes that had the audience smiling and swaying along. In anticipation for Julian’s debut album “Two Geese”, we sat down on a rainy Sunday morning to discuss where he came from, and how the themes of his childhood memories from Michigan intermingle with his self-discovery journey from his time in Chicago to create his debut album.

Photo by Nico Beauchamp (@coffeebreathh)

Tell me a bit about your personal background: where you’re from, how old you are, that kind of stuff.

Julian Saunders: So, I’m originally from Southfield Michigan, which is kind of a neighboring city around Detroit. I’m 21, I moved to the city straight out of high school, so 3 years ago, to pursue music and community and to meet more music people.

And “Southfield, MI” is the name of one of the tracks on the album, right?

Yeah!

Sick, we’ll get into that more later. First, I’m curious what some of your first memories of engaging with music are?

So my first memories of music would definitely be from my dad. My dad played in a lot of bands, he was a drummer throughout his life and throughout his teens and twenties, and when he had kids that translated into my life of him playing all these records, I feel like this is a common experience for a lot of people but, showing me lots of bands that he either played with or was friends with or knew or really loved or he would show me the greats too, and so that would definitely be my first memory of music, was just being shown so much media. 

“Southfield, MI” Single

And then, kind of like forgetting about it for a while and growing up as a teenager I started doing some acting, so I wasn’t really as into music as much the way my dad was into it, I was kinda more into musicals. Once I started to get into my later teen years everything kinda washed over me and felt like this big weird resurgence of memory, like I’d hear like a Jeff Buckley song or an Elliott Smith song and be like “Oh my God, I literally heard this” like I’d heard it before but had not heard it before but had that small faint memory of being a two-year-old listening to this song. Anyway, those are all my first memories of music. 

That’s sweet, that’s really cool. And so how does that connect with getting your start in music and pursuing it more seriously?

I guess getting my start, I did musical theatre a lot as a kid, did that for just short of a decade. So that’s where I learned to sing and how to put on performances, and then just right before COVID or during COVID I picked up my dad’s old guitar and started learning guitar, and then I kinda realized that that was sort of what I wanted to do. Like, I couldn’t do acting anymore because it was COVID there were no shows, so I quit acting and I decided to pursue music full time. Once I graduated high school came straight over here and have been doing it ever since.

Sowhat made you decide to pursue music independently rather than going to school for it in a formal structure? 

I think the big thing was, well, two big things. I hated high school. I almost failed high school, I almost didn’t graduate, I graduated by like a hair, just barely passed my final exam. So I hated school to begin with, and the second thing was I couldn’t afford it. I couldn’t afford to go to any colleges, I couldn’t afford community- well I probably could’ve figured out community college someway.

But there’s not really much in the realm of creative disciplines with community colleges, at least not to my knowledge.

Yeah, and music schools like Loyola or Columbia, I just know I wouldn’t be able to support myself in the long run having that much debt the way a lot of people in that situation are. I for sure was just like, I hate school already so why would I do that to myself when I might just end up dropping out?

Right, so like what would even be the point ?

Exactly, so I just moved to the city and got a serving job and have just been working in the food industry and now I work at Space too which has become a huge asset to my musical career because it’s like a music venue. It’s a part of 16 on Center, which is part of like Empty Bottle, Thalia Hall and Salt Shed [Chicago music venues], and it’s just cool to be able to see the industry from the professional business side of things, so I’m learning a lot from there.

That’s a really cool opportunity. Yeah, when I bought my camera I was heavily considering getting a masters in media production or creative direction, but then I realized like, “wait I hate school and I don’t have $80,000” to spend.

But there’s YouTube and Instagram reels!

Exactly! That’s how I learned everything I know. Okay, so looping back a bit, since you mentioned being a theatre kid I’m curious, what would you say are your top 3 favorite musicals?

Musicals? Oh fuck, oh wow-

I could’ve asked you your number one! I gave you three spots.

True, okay I feel like, I think it’s called “One” is my, I wanna say, ultimate favorite, wait, hang on.  A Chorus Line is what it's called, “One” is like the main song from it. My mom took me to see that show in Detroit when I was like 12, and it really stuck with me because the premise of the show is the entire thing is an audition, so it’s 20 different actors on stage going through the emotions and feelings and anxieties of auditioning for stuff, and talks a lot about growing up as a teenager and there’s a lot of funny sexual jokes that I was just starting to get as like a 12 year old so some of them were funny, anyways. It was very eye opening for me as a kid, and it’s just a great musical, a lot of the songs in there are really great. I remember going home after seeing that show and watching just specific sections of the musical and dance routines and practicing them in my living room. So that has to be my favorite experience with a musical.

I’d say, number two, West Side Story lowkey? I feel like that doesn’t need any explanation, it's just a great musical. Umm, number three….trying to think of a good one. I also haven’t seen that many musicals.

Les Mis is the only one I’ve seen live, and I just saw it back in December when it was downtown.

Was it good?

It was really good.

I could say that one. Hmm, not Phantom of the Opera, that’s a boring answer.

Oh you know what, that’s what it was, it was Phantom of the Opera. I didn’t see Les Mis.

That’s a good show!

It really is! Les Mis I would watch the movie version when I was young, so that’s the first musical I ever saw, I remember that. I was obsessed. But Phantom was the one I saw live .

Ha, that’s a good show. Um, wait, can it be a movie musical? 

Yeah, sure.

Um what’s it called… oh put Teen Beach Movie down.

Okay, actually funny, I was going to bring up Teen Beach Movie as just a side story because I was talking to my students about WSS and obviously no framework for that. So then I was like, okay well have you guys seen Teen Beach Movie because then I can at least like, kind of make that loose connection.

Right

And they were like “what are you talking about?”, these are middle schoolers by the way, and I was like “y’all don’t know Teen Beach Movie? Like what?” So I pull it up on the SMART board, I look it up and they’re like “Ms. S, that says it came out in 2013. We weren’t even born yet”

What, oh my God. Well, I guess we were probably that age when it came out. Or at least I was.

Hey I’m only 24 I’m not that much older than you

Well when you’re young 3 years is a big age difference! Like 6 years old to 9 years old.

Okay yeah I guess, yeah I was in 6th grade when it came out. But I was just shocked like “y’all were born postTeen Beach Movie? That’s crazy”, so I made them watch it one day.

Awww, that’s sweet, that’s awesome.

But yeah, I would also agree, West Side Story is one of my favorites. I love Heathers.

Oh I haven’t seen that one, but I do love the movie “Heathers”.

I’ve seen the movie and I love the soundtrack. Listening to it at 6am on my way to school always feels a little funny.

I think I’ve heard a couple songs off that soundtrack and I like it a lot.

A few were like viral on Tik Tok, that’s how I was even introduced to it in high school. I could say Hamilton but it took me a while to get into it. I do love Lin Manuel Miranda so, like, Encanto is one of my favorite movies of all time. But honestly I have fallen asleep every time I’ve tried to watch Hamilton.

Yeah, I’ve tried to watch it so many times but it just doesn’t do it for me. 

Yeah like I get it but, I don’t know, not my favorite. In the Heights though? I do love In the Heights.

I’ve heard a lot of good things about that show too.

I’ve seen the movie again, but I haven’t seen the show. But the movie’s really good. I like it a lot more than Hamilton.

Yeah, Hamilton’s just eh. I’ll have to watch In the Heights though.

Anyway, back to you. Going back to how you mentioned your dad showing you a lot of music growing up, you talk about that a bit in “Who I Am” with all the Beatles references in there. Tell me a bit more about that.

I have like a faint memory of my dad just singing [“Golden Slumbers”] throughout my childhood, I don’t know if that necessarily did or did not happen but I just remember him singing that to me as I was falling asleep, so that’s where that came from. The Beatles are great.

Obviously.

“Who I Am” Single (& Two Geese Album Cover)

[“Who I Am”] is kind of just like, coming to terms with the fact that, like I have this kinda motto in my life. Shit happens, and it’s whatever, just get over it and move on. Fix it, heal it, solve it, whatever. It’s a motto I follow loosely. I guess like the song is kind of just about letting go of certain feelings you don’t need to have or realizing that not every thought you have is actually fully connected to who you are and what your thoughts are, or what you should or shouldn’t be feeling. Thoughts are very confusing and I have a lot of trouble understanding and figuring out my own brain and thought process, so I guess that’s kinda what that song is about. It’s like, shit happens and it’s whatever. Moving on, healing that. I don’t know, it’s a self-discovery song I suppose, but there’s elements of- I feel like throughout the whole record there’s elements of childhood memories, so I try and throw those things wherever in songs.

It makes them more personal. I think it’s a good touch. So, tell me more about what inspired the album. Whether that’s other artists, other albums, genres, themes, etc.

Artists would definitely be Elliott Smith, Nick Drake and Jeff Buckley for sure; those are my big three. Arthur Russell there as an honorable mention. All those artists are kinda folky, rocky, kinda country twanginess, but I feel like writing this album there wasn’t exactly a specific want for what it was going to sound like, I kinda just wanted a collection of songs of mine that felt like one big piece regardless of what the sound was. So, I feel like on a lot of the record there’s a couple of songs that are super loud and intense kind of, and operatic? I don’t know, just a lot more loud. And then there’s a lot of songs that are very quiet and very intimate, and then there’s like two country songs in there. So, it’s like, I think this album was moreso just a way to see what’s going on with myself, and what I can do, what I can write and just figure out what I want my music to sound like. So, it’s kinda just a big experiment, and I definitely came out of it knowing a lot more about myself and a lot more about who I am as an artist, but also the direction I want to go with my music going forward. I have a way better idea of what I want my sound to be like, so I’m excited to now be able to explore that and then be able to work on another project and have it be, not like my “masterpiece” but more of like a honed-in product of my craft. 

Yeah, kind of like, what I’m hearing is that this album is more of like a product of you exploring and discovering your sound, so now your next work can be more of like an art piece.

Yes, perfect. Exactly. 

I think you see that in a lot of musicians’ first albums too, like okay this is a great album, but it doesn’t have the cohesion as their next ones do.

Yeah, totally.

My friends and I debate that a lot. Like, we say there’s Perfect Albums and No-Skip Albums. No-Skip Albums are great, every song is great, but it doesn’t necessarily have like, a theme.

It doesn’t follow, like, a structure.

Yes exactly, it lacks structure. I’m a big Maggie Rogers fan, so her albums, especially her most recent one, are all intentionally structured and have, like, perfect flow. You can tell when they take the physical act of listening to a vinyl record into account too. But yeah, a lot of good musicians have a great first album and then you can see the development of their next albums turning into more of an art form.

Yeah, totally.

Okay, so I think I read about this in an Instagram post of yours or something, but tell me about the album cover art.

Original painting by Woody Saunders

So, my dad did all of the covers for my singles and the album artwork. They’re all just paintings he did over the years of his life. I think the main album cover art was done like 10-15 years ago. My dad made that painting, and it kinda just sat around the house, and when we moved it kinda moved throughout houses. And then it was my brother’s and I went to visit him a couple of years ago and I saw that he had it, and I thought it would be really cool to have as an album cover. Now fast forward a couple years and it’s that. And it’s right there, also points across the room. So yeah, that’s where that came from. There’s two more, the “Southfield, MI” cover and one of my old songs “Ready to Go Again”, also are paintings by my dad that are in my room. But they’re all just old paintings by my dad.

That’s really cool. I love that. Okay we talked about album construction as a whole, do you have a favorite song on the album?

Yeah, lowkey, “Tire Swing”. That’s on the record but it’s not out yet. I think that’s my favorite song of the album. It’s just like, definitely a big swingin’ country tune. But I didn’t like the song at all when I first wrote it. It was kinda just like a song I had written for myself just to experiment, and then I showed it to my girlfriend and my bass player in my band Ethan. We performed it for my girlfriend, just the two of us and she was like “I love it so much you need to record this!” And I was like “what? Really? What do you mean?” 

And then I sat down with Scott Daniel who played fiddle on my record and they, like, oh my gosh. They took that song to an entirely different level and made me fall in love with the song. Like I obviously knew I was going to put it on the record at that point, that’s why I had rehearsed it with Scott. But I didn't know it was going to become my favorite song off the record until I played it with Scott. Violin is just a beautiful instrument so it can add so many new elements to songs, so yeah. I like that song a lot so that’s my favorite.

That’s really cool. And then, “Two Geese” obviously is the title track and the first single on the album you put out. Tell me about the choice behind that, the song itself and connecting it to why it’s the title track.

“Two Geese” Single

Well, the song, at its base level is a self-discovery kind of thing. But when I first moved to Chicago, the first year after I had been here, there’s a beach close by called Hartigan Beach and I would go there every day for months on end, in the middle of the winter and spring and summer. I would just always be there. It was kind of just where I felt safe and at home, and I had felt this super strong guidance and loving energy from these two geese that were always at this beach. It was always two of them, they were always there, no more no less. From what I can gather I’m pretty sure it’s the same ones. I had a pretty cool awesome experience with them where I felt like I was pretty close to them, pretty connected to the animal. So, they felt like guardians in a sense, so the song “Two Geese” and the meaning is, well to be so real with you, that song has like four different meanings in it because there’s just so many different aspects of it. But at the base of it, aside from the geese story, it’s essentially finding guidance and nurture in things that are out of the ordinary. 

For example, to explain this a little bit, another element to that song is “the woman in the painting”. When I was a child, there was this photograph of a woman, but for the context of the song I said it was a painting, a woman in her sixties maybe. I have no idea how the fuck we got this picture of this person. But it was in the basement of my childhood home in Southfield, and the basement in that house was fucking terrifying. It was scary, it was disgusting, very dark and very big too, weird. But there was that picture of that woman and everything I saw her I’d be scared shitless of her, I felt like her eyes would follow me, it was terrifying. I was so scared of her. And then around the time I was writing this song, I went to bed one night and I had a dream that I was back in my childhood home, and I went into the basement, and it was magically, like, clean and beautiful and homey. There’s a couch down there, and the woman in the painting was sitting on the couch with my older brother, and she was smoking a cigar or a pipe and like cackling and laughing and started asking me all these questions. Kinda giving me all this guidance in my life, and so that’s kind of like, with the geese and with this woman - I feel like geese are often seen as creatures that are annoying or fucking shitting everywhere and like mean, and then this woman I used to be so scared of, I kinda found guidance in these people and things. Just finding guidance in out-of-the-ordinary things. 

How that relates to the whole album, I feel like that song and its tone captures all of the levels that the record goes through. It captures all the intimate moments, all the loud moments, and the in between. So I think why I kind of made it the opener and also the title track is it’s just preparing you for what the rest of the record is going to sound like, I suppose.

That’s cool. Okay, totally abstract question here, but if your album was a drink, what drink would it be?

Hmmm, can it be a cocktail?

Yeah, it can be whatever you want.

Hazy IPA, haha no. Dude, I don’t know. I wanna say something super niche and cool. Oh, you know what, maybe I don’t want it to be an alcoholic drink. Lowkey, let me make sure I have the right name before I say it out loud. Okay, yeah, maybe a London Fog tea?

Oh, yeah sure. Isn’t that like, earl grey and…

Yeah, earl grey with a hint of lavender and vanilla. I feel like obviously looking at the cover of it, it’s very grey. I feel like London is very grey, there’s also earl grey in there. I feel like it's a warm cozy drink. It’s very home-feeling, it doesn’t remind me of my childhood at all but it's warm, cozy, grey. Boom, that’s it.

There you go, warm cozy grey. My stepmom used to be really into making London Fog teas at home, so honestly that’s homey for me at least.

Aw that’s sweet.

Okay you kind of touched on this by talking about “Two Geese”, but if you had to make a mini sample for someone of your album, like if they only had time to hear three songs to get a taste of the rest of the album, what three songs should they listen to? I’m guessing “Two Geese” would be one?

Yeah, probably just all the singles. So “Two Geese”, “Southfield, MI” and “Who I Am”. Probably those three. “Two Geese” captures the intimate and the loud and the in between, and then “Southfield, MI” covers all the country twangy aspects of the record and then “Who I Am" captures the quiet sad aspect of it. 

Is there anything you hope listeners take away from the album? Or if they listened through it and were left with one feeling or kind of thing, what would it be? However, you want to interpret that question, cause I know that’s tough to say.

Oh, I don’t know. The record’s definitely really sad, hmmm what else…I have no idea.

I mean, you talked about self-discovery in writing the songs.

Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, definitely do with the songs as you will and if they speak to you, cool. I’m kinda stumped here. I feel like the record for me is super personal, so I feel like I’m not able to decipher what somebody could take out of that because it is so “me me me” in a sense.

Yeah, you talked about that earlier too. This is a collection of your work and your self-discovery and you’re just putting it out there. So, it’s kinda like, take what you want from it.

Lowkey, yeah. Just take what you will. If you like it cool, if you don’t also cool. It’s here for whatever you need from it.

Yeah, I think that’s good. Letting the listener make it their own.

So tell me about your teams. First, your musical team: who played on the album, helped produce it, etc.

Photo by Croix du Nord

The band is Jack on pedal steel, he’s a great friend of mine, awesome dude. Plays in a lot of awesome really cool bands, notably Growing Boys, they’re incredible. Kayla from Growing Boys also sang on the record, they’re an incredible singer, they’re awesome. Ethan plays bass and also did a lot of the composing for a lot of the songs like “Anymore”, “To Breathe” and “You”. Those are all songs on the record but aren’t out yet. He’s also just a good friend of mine. Fiona has been the most recent addition to the band.

She was your drummer at Park West right?

Yeah, that was the first show we played with her, she’s literally the best drummer in Chicago, she's insane. Yeah, we’re really happy to have her. Then there’s Eric who plays piano in the group, he’s awesome. He was the first person to ever play in the project too which is cool. Oh! Actually the most recent addition has been Avery, they are going to be performing with us for the album release show on violin. They are incredible, so I’m excited to have a big full six-piece group for the record release show. All the engineering and mixing was done by Daniel Patt and it was mastered by Heather Jones.

And what about your personal team, like your support people, your community.

Definitely consists of all my close friends and my partner, all my close people. But some people in the scene that have helped me out the most would definitely be, number one Samuel Aaron. Incredible folk-rock-soul artist in Chicago, he’ll be opening for the album release show. Incredible graphic designer too, just a great dude. He’s helped me out a lot with the process of putting out a record so I’m incredibly grateful to him for that. He also did all of the graphic and layout design for the vinyl and CDs, so that’s cool. 

Should I just start listing out bands that I like? 

You can!

Growing Boys is incredible like I mentioned, I went on tour with them. Croix du Nord is a good friend of mine. He’s a Wisconsin artist and has helped me out a lot, meeting friends across the Midwest. There’s a lot more too, but there've been dozens upon dozens of bands that I’ve met in the scene that I’ve been able to form a community with and it’s just the most beautiful scene I’ve ever seen, everyone in Chicago just wants to be here for one another and support each other. 

Sweet, well kind of similar realm here, if you had like a way long shot dream collab, and then like an attainable dream collab, what would be your two? Like, long shot can mean the artist is even no longer living, but something that would be like a crazy dream come true, and then a collaboration that you could see happening in the near future.

I don’t wanna say Elliott Smith because I don’t think we would’ve collabed well together at all. Huh, I don’t know. Oh, wait. Okay, we’ll do a dead person for the dream one . Let’s do Arthur Russell. I feel like he was super experimental in a lot of records in terms of experimenting with the folk sound so I think it would’ve been fun to throw around ideas with him. He was also a cello player so it could've been cool to do some guitar/cello stuff. And a more attainable collaboration, the band Friendship. They’re so fucking good dude, just so good. They’re part of the big MJ Lenderman/Wednesday crowd. I just saw them play at Empty Bottle two months ago, and they’re just so good. I think attainable, well I don’t even know if that’s attainable but even just to hang out with them would be cool.

Okay cool, then just to wrap up, give me the details on that album release show you mentioned.

Album release show is at Empty Bottle, it’ll be April 17th. Show starts at 10pm, we have two openers, it’ll be Orillia and Samuel Aaron. I will also have my own pizza slice next door at Pizza Friendly pizza! 

Wait, that’s so cool, signature pizza! I’ll definitely have to pull up to check that out. Anything else you wanna add in there?

I don’t think so, I shouted out the music friends, shouted out the pizza, I think that’s it!

Okay beautiful! Well that’s all I’ve got.

Dope dude, well thank you for taking the time to do this!

Of course! Thank you for meeting with me!